DAVID ADAMS speaks to Darlene Zschech about her new album and devotional, ‘Testament’, her advice for someone starting out in the music industry and her role as one of the lead pastors at Hope Unlimited Church…
Having recently released a new album, Testament, to mark the 30th anniversary of the release to her worship hit, Shout to the Lord, Darlene Zschech recently launched a companion devotional book, Testament: 30 Days of Remembrance.
Zschech lives with husband Mark on the Central Coast in New South Wales, Australia, and together they are the senior leaders of Hope Unlimited Church (Hope UC) which now has six campuses in Australia as well as campuses in the US and India.
Darlene Zschech. PICTURE: Supplied
Zschech spoke to Sight about the devotional, her advice for someone starting out in the music industry, and her role as one of the lead pastors at Hope UC…
Congratulations on the book and the album. What made you decide to release a devotional along with the album?
“Yeah, well, the album took a year to record. My kids really reminded me that Shout to the Lord was turning 30. And they were like, ‘You need to do something’. So that was kind of the kickstart of Testament. And, then as I was doing that – because I guess I’d chosen these 30 songs that kind of have had a bit of legacy impact, it really brought to mind where I was in those moments, what was happening around writing these songs; the circumstances, the Scriptures. So towards the end of that process of recording, I thought, ‘Do you know what? I think [with] each song I can do a long form kind of story’…
“Testament: 30 Days of Remembrance is about remembering the faithfulness of God – from the album through to the book. So there’s a question at the end of each chapter which asks you to remember, around a certain circumstance in your life, what did God do for you? What what helped you in this situation in your life?…Revelation says ‘They overcame by the Blood of the Lamb and the Word of their Testimony’. Oh my gosh, we can refute theology all day long, but actually my testimony is my testimony and you cannot take that from me. I’m trying to provoke the testimony in you…I think we’ve got to know what we believe and why we believe it, so that we can, at any time, begin to share our story with people and talk about the faithfulness of God.”
You refer to it as a journal at one point – it’s obviously a very personal response to each of the songs. How was that as an experience, going back through those songs? And did it change the way that you’d looked at some of the songs?
“I don’t know that it changed the way I looked at some of the songs, but I was supremely grateful for God’s kindness through it all and it did bring up, you know, emotions and it did bring up at a little bit bit of grief – I talk about some of harder things in there. And yeah, it brought up just some beautiful memories of just watching the thread of God’s kindness through my life. And that is not life being, you know, all hunky dory, but through the tumultuous waves, the suffering and the joy. That’s the God we serve. So, yeah, it was a it was a beautiful – pulled everything out of my heart – project.”
How do you think Christian music, in particular Christian worship music, has evolved since the release of Shout to the Lord 30 years ago?
“Now that’s a big question. Look, I think mostly it’s evolved beautifully….I feel like it was just the kindness of God that we [in Australia] were so separate from [the] Christian music industry. We watched God [move] through C3 and Planet Shakers and then the Hillsong thing and we watched God do this before all the mechanics were in play. Right?…I love that it has empowered ordinary, small churches [and] large churches. It kind of gave people permission to dream and to write…I feel like it put wind under people’s wings for writing songs of worship for the local church.
“You know, as always, with anything great, there’s always the things that aren’t so great, which is when commerce and celebrity come to jump on the the train of God’s glory…There will always be a wrestle around those things and the good thing is now we’ve got these legacy leaders – Michael W [Smith], Graham Kendrick, Martin Smith, Matt Redmond, myself, CeCe Winans – people who’ve been doing this a long time, who’ve seen the highs and the lows and everything in between, and we’re all committed to raising and teaching the next generation so they can bring the fulness of who they are to the table while keeping the worship part of your life, sacred, uncluttered, and on fire.”
Australians have obviously hit a bit above their weight, wouldn’t you say, in the Christian worship sphere?
“I know. I just love it. I think we are a mystery to the industry…Even last weekend, I was talking to one of our campuses and we were leading worship and I’m like, ‘Don’t ever forget yet Australia’s name – we are the Great Southland of the Holy Spirit’…There’s an innocence about us Aussies in our faith. And then we we can be brash Aussies and quite expressive and demonstrative and that doesn’t fit anywhere either. And so I feel like, to the world, that was a little bit of a breath of fresh air and I pray that we continue to be that and we don’t try and morph or fit in…[T]hat’s the beauty of worship. If it all sounds the same, what’s that about? You know, we’ve got to bring the colour and the breadth and the depth of the majesty of who our God is, so every nation tribe and tongue – we all have a sound. We all have a song that will be unique to our experience and that’s kind of the point.”
IN SHORT…DARLENE ZSCHECH
A song that I’m listening to…”More than This, CeCe Winans.”
A songwriter I admire…”I mean, for story, you’ve gotta say Joni Mitchell, but I admire so many. Probably right now, I’m going to say Jen Johnson. I’m loving the way she articulates, like the song The Church. I couldn’t have I couldn’t have written it, but it feels like I am aligned with it.”
A favourite Bible verse…”I’m stuck in Psalm 91. I take it every day. When I was [taking] medication for cancer, I took my medicine every day and Psalm 91 every day. I couldn’t live without it.”
You mentioned celebrity. For someone new starting out in the area of Christian music, particularly in worship music, what advice would you give to them about how do they cope with that? How do they make sure they don’t fall in that trap and maintain their integrity as they go through the the process?
“Yeah. There’s lots of us who been around a long time who are really passionate about teaching this. There’s this great writer Richard Foster who talks about coming against the flesh or keeping your flesh in its rightful place. He said the great antidote is service. And he said it is not just service, but service in hiddenness. So no accolade for the service. And this is what I love about the local church, the family of God. It’s like in in our home – if you’re part of this family, everyone has chores…We do the things to keep our home invitational, healthy, sacred. When it comes to our lives in a public space and we’re part of the family of God, there has to be a place where your roots are down deep, where you can be challenged, where you can be on a door welcoming people…
“Because in the end with worship or ‘worthship’, we’re revealing Jesus…it’s not about us. We’re getting ourselves out of the way. And you know, it’s not a career move. It’s not any of those things. This is a sacred space when it comes to the things of God so we have to treat it as God asks us to, so that means tending to our heart, tending to our unseen life of worship, which is, you know, all of our life, and making sure that you have a place where you can be challenged, where you pray with people and be prayed for, where you are accountable. It’s really important, just like a family.”
In putting together the 30 songs for the album and and for the devotional, was there any particular one that you struggled with or any that were particularly challenging to reflect upon?
“It was hard to pick 30. There was lots of songs that I could have chosen and maybe might have been a bit more well-known even. It was hard to whittle it down to 30. But I chose them for, not just impact, but also for story. You know, there’s a song in there that probably most people haven’t heard called Saviour and I wrote it for an Easter weekend at church. It’s very simple, but it’s like the story of the Cross. At one point in my life when there was particular suffering, I was driving in the car with my husband and it just hit me…We [were] in a Lenten season, [being] very intentional around this remembering what Jesus has done for us. And it was kind of just like fire went off in my belly and I’m like ‘You did it for me’. Mark’s like ‘What, what? What’s happening?’ And I’m like ‘Jesus went to the Cross and I know He paid everything for me’ but in that moment I knew that I knew that I knew. He did it for me. And so Savior was born. And I’m like, I’m going to include Saviour.”
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Has your approach to the process of songwriting changed?
“I think age helps you not be quite so precious. I can easily write something and send it off to a few friends and say ‘Is this any good?’ I’m really hard to offend. So that is a great gift on my life. I also don’t take hints – you have to be really straight with me. If you’re hinting about something, I’m going to totally miss it….[W]hen I was a younger songwriter…[I] probably wasted a lot of time just feeling inferior. Well now that process is different. I’m happy to be like ‘Hey, is this any good?’ and someone who [I] would really admire would write back ‘Nah, it’s no good’. I’m like ‘Great. I won’t waste any more time on it and do something else’…”
Now you’ve been at Hope UC for nearly 15 years now. What does your role there involve?
“Well, Mark and I are lead pastors [and] yeah, we lead our campuses, we lead our team. We’ve got the best team on the planet. And really for us now, because we’ve been at it so long, we really put all our time and energy into the key team. We’re a very tactile church – we don’t do it from a distance, we’re very relational…So we spend a lot of time with our team, a lot of time on prayer and what God would have us speak. And then, of course, I’m involved in the worship team…[looking at] culturally, what we’re going for. And then we have churches in America and in India…and we get together once a year with all of us and I really love it. I love ministry. I love taking Jesus to people whether through worship or being in the hospital or, you know, taking communion with somebody. I just think that’s the job of a Jesus follower, just whatever it takes or whatever God’s asked us to tend to in the moment. We just take Jesus to people. And that’s what we’re doing.”
Who do you hope is going to read the devotional and what do you hope that they’re going to take away from it?
“[T]here’s a little QR code [with each devotion] and you can listen to the song as you read. It’s very intentional because often in in this noisy world, it’s really only worship that allows us to bring the whole of our senses – from spiritual to auditory to physical – into alignment to really receive something from God. So that’s very intentional. There’s Scripture, there’s story, and at the end I ask the reader to think, to meditate, to remember, to get a story in their backpack for when, at any time, someone asks you as the Bible says, for the reason of your countenance – you know, ‘Well, I am a Christian and this is why. This is the story of God in my life’. So it’s very intentional. That is what I’m really, by the grace of God, praying that it achieves.”
This interview has been edited for clarity and length. This article contains an affiliate link.
